Switching over to a macintosh.
I have been a long time cakewalk user, but i don't want to run windows on the mac.
So, i am considering cubase as my daw, but i have heard 4 is a bit crashy and buggy for macs. would anyone here recomend a different version of cubase? Are the older versions also buggy, are they just about as capable?
If cubase is a bad choice for a mac, can anyone recomend a DAW that is similar to cakewalk sonar?
Thanks so much!
>Your friend,
Adam
I have been a long time cakewalk user, but i don't want to run windows on the mac.
So, i am considering cubase as my daw, but i have heard 4 is a bit crashy and buggy for macs. would anyone here recomend a different version of cubase? Are the older versions also buggy, are they just about as capable?
If cubase is a bad choice for a mac, can anyone recomend a DAW that is similar to cakewalk sonar?
Thanks so much!
>Your friend,
Adam
posted by:
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New Jersey
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Re: Mac DAWs...
12/31The obvious choice would be Logic Studio.
I have never used cakewalk, but Logic is the shit (in my opinion). -
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Re: Mac DAWs...
12/31I've heard wonderful things about the newest versions of Logic but I also know several extremely sophistcated electronic music
composers and producers who swear by Digital Performer which they claim is far less labyrhinthine.
I don't know from personal experience, however, just what I heard.
Another thing I have heard is that virtually all the DAWs tend to follow the innovative lead of Logic. Again, this is unsubstantiated but
it might just provoke more discussion leading to more knowledge. I've heard this several places. -
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Re: Mac DAWs...
12/31My projects tend to be filled with thousands of small clips and edits. I find logics interface for dealing with lots of independent audio clips to be a bit distracting. cakewalk was just soooo simple.
Do any of you know, if i buy a used copy of a cubase 4 disk that doesn't come witha dongle, can i buy one of the ones off ebay to use with it?
Dongles are annoying.... Booking up one of my 2 usb ports and getting lost. Bah!
Thanks for you help folks!
>yer friend,
Adam -
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Re: Mac DAWs...
01/01That seems to be the crux of all Audio work
"My projects tend to be filled with thousands of small clips and edits. I find logics interface for dealing with lots of independent audio clips to be a bit distracting. cakewalk was just soooo simple. "
For the things I love to do , Sony Sound Forge (as a digital editor) and Fruity Loops Producers Edition are just unbelievably
fast an intuitive, even despite the fact that Logic is such a deep and amazing program (also not to mention that I don't have
a Mac for my main sound design station).
It doesn't make FLStudio better than Logic..............it just makes it better for me.
In a way, some could say that the only answer would be Cycling 74's Max/MSP which, as an object oriented sound creation studio
that one can customize at will, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!!!!
One just needs to decide if one wants to build the guitar they are going to play and play it, or if they are going to trust someone else to build it. If you are a lapsteel player who uses a single tube amp with no effects then it doesn't matter how many buttons and whistles that a
hybrid guitar synthesizer/custom electric has, it's just not germane to your music.
If you want incredible control over midi and digital audio, then Logic and Cubase are for you....................
Live kicks ass on Sony's ACID for the things it can do (and in real time), but I prefer Acid because it's way faster and more intuitive
for me to use (and I already have great hardware loopers).
If you are Kid Beyond....................don't dream about anything but Ableton's Live and a handlful of bitchen VSTS and a midi floor pedal.
This point seems to get lost in the myriad of online discussions about 'what's best'.
I'd say the best way to research it for yourself is to research what the artists who do stuff nearest to your heart use and why.
Then make your educated decision and then, importantly, learn to love and truly know what ever you choose.
With digital sound processing these days, you could spend years in just a sound editor scultping sound and putting it together.
THey are all so deep in their capabilities and we are all so lucky to have these kinds of choices.
In 1980 the 8 track TEAC that i lusted after cost $3000! The fact that you can buy a complete , sohpisticated DAW whose myriad functions you will never use fully in a lifetime for under $600 is pretty miraculous (even if you have to sweat a dongle.....................lol)
NEVER use
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Re: Mac DAWs...
01/01"In a way, some could say that the only answer would be Cycling 74's Max/MSP which, as an object oriented sound creation studio
that one can customize at will, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!!!! "
I know it well. I am a long time KYMA user, and int the world of DAWs,
NO, i dont want to have to build THAT guitar.
I will investigate further about cubase, because it seems closest to cakewalk, which i have been using for about 10 years and am really used to.
I have heard of lots of bugs though with cubase 4 on mac. Does anyone know anything about this? are SX3 and other earlier versions more stable?
Thanks for your help folks!
>Yer friend,
Adam -
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Re: Mac DAWs...
01/01Out of curiosity, how is the latest version of SONAR?
Is it available for Mac. I've heard that it's really simple to use.
Years ago, they wouldn't allow quantizing down to levels of triplet 32nd notes which meant it was difficult
to do music with the slicing and dicing qualities of Jungle/Drum and Bass and Glitch, but I would imagine that
they fixed that finally in later versions. That's still their flagship DAW (Cakewalk) isn't it? -
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i WISH they had it for macintosh, i would use it for sure. YEs now i think the smallest quantization for their "snapping" is 1/128th!!!
So many great features. i started using cakewalk about 10 or 12 years ago when it was cakewalk pro audio. it has really come a long way. so easy to use and quite stable i must say.
Again...
I WISH they had it for macintosh.
Especially because i already OWN it and it will suck to have to throw down for a brand new DAW, especially if it doesn't measure up.
How scetchy do yall think running windows on the mac is?
WOuld that make me a sitting duck again for every kind of virus, adware and nonsence?
What do yall think?
Anyone out there looking to sell cubase sx 3 with the dongle? let me know. -
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using boot camp you should be all right... but you will have to procure a non-oem windows install for your mac.
you should perhaps join the mac osx tribe and ask if anyone has specific experience using daws or sonar with boot camp. that tribe is an excellent forum for mac stuff. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.I'm been sceptical and still don't have first hand information, but everything I've read is that
Windows runs perfectly on the Mac Intel Machines. After all , the Intel chips were designed to run
Windows originally.
The only drawback I've heard is that there are so many built in mouse moves for Windows that are not there
with the standard Mac mice (man, Steve Jobs' ego is frustrating sometimes............there's no reason why he couldn't
have gone to a multiple button mouse as standard fare as opposed to the older fashioned three button mouse that's there now-----
I know, I know, you can buy alternative mice for the Mac, but it should COME with them for the price they are charging for the
Macbook and Macbook Pro)
I've heard, however, that there are plenty of ways around this.
Important to remember is that this isn't running Windows inside of OSX it is the option
of running a full windows version INSTEAD of OSX when the user wants.
I'd say you should be able to trust it. Good luck.
ps Jeremy, why do you have to have a non OEM windows install for the mac. I've never heard of this and this bumps
the price up another $200..............ouch!!!! -
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typically... oem disks will only install on the machine they were purchased with... your mileage may vary... but that has been my experience. note that I slyly said "procure"... as there are alternatives to purchasing windows... the likes of which my lawyer advised me not to comment on!
I actually run acid and sound forge using vmware fusion on my mac and they both work great. of course... I haven't tried anything involving multitrack recording into the vm at this point. -
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It is not that i doubt that windows will run well on the mac, it is that i am worried that windows will be a gateway to my computer for viruses, adware and all the problems that windows has to offer. Personally, i have had about enough and that is part of the reason i am switching platforms.
As far as "procuring" goes...
my lawyer asked me to ask you folks if there are cracked versions of cubase out there for the mac, with dongle EMULATORS.
otherwise, my lawyer is going to have to go more into debt after just dropping 3 grand on the laptop.
Thanks folks. -
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I really like Live 6 and am going to get Live 7 very soon. It is kinda weird at first as its GUI is pretty unique and its take on MIDI editing is a bit different from others out there (at least in my experience) but you can get started pretty easily (that is it won't slow you down much to learn) and if you let it, it will teach you some GREAT techniques.
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Here is what you do if you are paranoid about viruses on a Mac INTEL SYSTEM
1) put all of your email and browsing capabilities on the OS X side of your computer
2) Do NO email or internet on the WINDOWS side
3) Use as little WINDOWS software as possible on the Windows side if you insist on
having internet on that side.
4) JUST DON"T use the internet on that side no matter what (lol, I know 2 adn 4 are identical)
You'll be fine under these circumstances.
My understanding is that viruses cannot jump the Harddrive partition between Operating Systems
Can anyone back me up on this with expertise? I still haven't made my purchase yet. -
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Hi Adam :)
Logic's new interface has changed since previous versions... cleaner... otherwise, Don's advice is pretty sound, and I think you in particular would enjoy the improv mashup capabilities Live offers.
I don't have enough experience with Cakewalk to compare, but knowing Logic and Live, I can vouch for either... or both. -
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HEy Eitan!!!
Hope everything is mad loVely for your ears these days!
I have messed with both LIVE and logic, but while i like to use them for somethigns, i like cakewalk for simple editing and aranging. So simple and visual. While live is awesome for what it does, it isn't quite as stritforward an interface for the maniac editing and composition i like to get involved with.
Dean uses logic and live, and i get to have my dose of them when i record with him. Maybe i will just have to adapt? -
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Hey, it may be worth your while to download a demo copy of Digital Performer. As stated earlier it is very popular with many working musicians. A professional sound library composer I know swears by it.
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How similar is it to cakewalk or cubase?
Do you have to name each individual recording, or will it automatically be stored for you? I take lots of little clips and recordings in my music. It needs to be easy to record and edit and arrange tons of audio. -
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it will automatically name files as you record them.
I like digital performer, personally. -
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Are there automation envelopes (amplitude and other parameters) and can you set up sidechaining for VSTs and compressors?
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I believe that would vary with other plug-ins... but the compressor that is included with DP allows you to select a bus as the control signal.
and yes... you can edit automation envelopes for any parameter of the track or plug-in or softsynth quite easily! -
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Hmmmm...
Looks like i may have to give DP a shot. It seems cubase users are having too many problems runnng it on osx.
I read through the cubase forums, and they are filled with complaints of people never getting support or bug fixes. Many talk about having to switch to an other DAW, even though they don't want to.
Lame to hear that after all these years, steinberg doesn't seem to be taking cake of their loyal supporters. I guess i will look elsewhere.
Too bad, cubase looks like fun, and looks very similar to sonar, which i love.
Have a blissful weekend.
>Your friend,
Adam -
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Got a copy of logic...
01/08But i think i will get rid of it.
Editing tons of audio clips is a bitcccchh in the DAW. Very pretty, but just not as fluid and simple of a workflow as cakewalk. Things are just made far more complicated than they need to be for the same results. -
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Yeah, Logic is much better with Midi than it is with Audio. If you're doing that much with Audio though, have you considered Pro Tools? That's a breeze when it comes to Audio manipulation.
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I have an M box- it gathers dust...I find Pro Tools a little too finicky about OS versions and whatnot to even bother dealing with it.
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I have been experimenting with all the major Mac compatible DAWs.
Logic Pro 8- to much of a nuisance with their "audio bin" nonsense approach to clips. Too many silly extra steps to do simple things like copy and audio file, and then manipulate the new copy, without destroying the original. In the end, the workflow is lousy for the type of work I want to do.
Cubase SX3- the SX stands for Sucks. Loads of complications to the workflow. Too many extra steps and windows for integrating plugins and soft synths. Surely the most similar daw for mac to Sonar, but just not as good, by a LONG shot.
Ableton live 7 - AWESOME. But, nothing like sonar. I would use it for some other things, but for editing arranging and composing, it is a bit more complicated than it needs to be. I will keep it and love it, but I don't want to run it as m only daw for composition. Again, a REALLY AWESOME program for what it is.
DP 5 - A bit confusing, and just flat out UGLY. I can't bear to look at the screen for one more minute, i think my eyes are bleeding.
Somewhere in between the worlds of logic and Cubase, not close enough to cakewalk for my tastes.
So...
How sketchy do yall think it would be for me to run Windows on the Mac just for sonar? Am I setting myself up for viruses and adware and plenty of blue screen specials again?
DO I need PC versions of my vsts to be used by cakewalk on a mac? Or can I use the mac versions?
Where do I install the drivers for my sound card, in windows or osx?
Thanks for all your help and advice folks.
>Adam -
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which mac do you have? I know that the mac pros have hardware support for virtualization.
also... which audio interface?
try downloading the free demo of VMware fusion.
for one thing... you can actually disable the network adapter... so your windows VM won't be able to get online!
you would install everything in the windows environment... sonar... vsts... everything.
the other answer would be to run bootcamp... which I have not done. -
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I am running a brand new macbook pro 2.6 with 10.5.1 I use an M-audio firewire 410.
M audio has not yet released drivers for leopard, wich is a bit annoying. I hope the get to that SOON!
VMware... thanks for the tip, i will look into that, will i be able to run both OSs at the same time? Bacease I like to run KYMA out of OSX and will need to switch back and forth frequently. DOesn't one of those softwares allow you to run windows as an ap inside of osx?
Thanks Jeremy for you input. I am getting desperate to get back to work over here.
>Your friend,
adam -
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yes... you can absolutely run both at the same time. also... there is a "unity" mode which allows you to run windows apps in the osx desktop! you can have the mac menu at the top of the screen... and the windows taskbar at the bottom... or just use windows apps with the dock etc... it's pretty cool stuff!
I personally have been able to run acid... sound forge... and vegas in the windows VM... but I haven't actually tried to record anything. the VM allows playthrough from windows to the primary sound device in osx... which in my case is a presonus firepod.
if you have a windows disk... I say give it a try. fusion has multi-processor support for the VMs as well. I find the performance to be pretty good! -
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How do you stop windows from connecting to the internet? is it a setting in vmware's prefrences?
So you can use it to run JUST the windows based aps, without the whole xp system around it!?! that's pretty cool, i say!
If you think i will be safe from all the crashyness the windows world has to offer, i may just give that a shot.
Thanks -
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I'm using a mac pro quad core (last year's model).
yes... you can disable the network connection with an option for the VM. it's actually pretty simple once you have it installed.
as long as you don't use the VM to surf the web you should be fine... though sometimes it's handy for the registration... and to make sure that your os is updated.
of course... you will need a non-oem XP install! -
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oh... and I'm still using tiger... as I am a "slow adopter"
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looks like VMware 1.1 supports leopard. I will give it a shot.
Chances are now that windows is onto a new platforwm, vist, there will be no more updates and support for xp, that is my guess.
Anyhow, i will be looking to get my filthy paws on a non oem xp sp2 and i will be back in bussiness soon!
Thanks for the tip, VMware looks awesome, especially the feature where you can run windows aps in the osx side, without the windows os right in your face.
>Adam -
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SOund card drivers...
01/14since the firewire 410 doesn't have drivers out for 10.5.1 can i install the drivers and panel on the windows side of my mac, and run the panel for the 410 in the "unity" feature in osx? Or do the soundcard drivers need to benative in osx? -
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alright!
So, i installed vmware fusion 1.1 onto my mabook pro 1.6 running leopard. I installed windows xp pro sp 2. And in windows i installed cakewalk sonar 7.
I only allow the windows virtual machine to be networked to the host machine (no internet).
It seems this whole setup slows my system down to a CRAWL. Sonar freezes when you try to oipen it. I got it to open sucsesfully once, but it crashed when i went to open a project. I have experimented with changing the virtual hardware settings of the windows virtual machine, but it has not helped. And while the vm is running, my whole computer runs quite slowly...
...Any advice? are parralels and bootcamp this taxing? I need to go back and forth between windows and osx.
Anybody?
Come to my rescue?
>Thanks for everything,
yer friend,
Adam -
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assuming that you...
-set the vm to use both processors
-set the memory to at least one gig
-have at least 2 gigs of ram in your mac -
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Thats what i have going on.
My macbook has 2 gb RAM
i have my windows vm set to have 2 processors and over 1 gb ram
I know sonar is a bit demanding (when running pleanty of audio tracks vsts and automation), but right now it isn't even able to run. It freezes after the scan process of it's startup.
Anyone else here running sonar 7? Will an update save me?
Any tips about the vm settings? -
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wELL MANY TRIES LATER...
01/19So After having no luck succesfully running sonar 7 in vmware windows wx, I tried it in parallels. Same crap. Very slow lots of crashing. Little stability.
Are these methods of running two OSs at the same time just too taxing for running hardcore aps? it seems like they just divide your resources, so that you have two virtual crappy computers instead of one nice computer...
...I guess I will have to adapt to live and logic, the better two of the DAWs that I have messed with that run mac.
R.I.P. Sonar... I will be missing you. -
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I have gotten a little deeper into cubase sx 3...
It is pretty similar to sonar actually. Somethings seem to be a pain, like setting up sidechaining, but all in all it is a pretty smoot program. No fragile behavior yet. Nice plug in support and simple audio editing. I think I would like to upgrade it to cubase4, if they ever iron out all the crashing on macs. But until then, I think cubase sx3 will be my primary daw. -
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I had just noticed an earlier post on using Live as a DAW....I just have to throw this in as the real beauty of it is doing all of your sequencing in the session view and try to pull it off as best as you can in a single take and just go back and correct things like volume and send and returns and effects envelopes at the end in the arrangement view.....sounds a little weird and repetitive but if you dink around for a bit you can come up with some really great results and you can do some real hard core chopping and whatnot in the session view. I really do all of my last minute tweaks in arrangement and that's it.
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